"In this sticky web that we're all in, behaving decently is no small task." -- Novelist Stacey D'Erasmo

Sunday, February 23, 2020

Why Do Blue State Liberals Retire to Red States?

     My nephew who moved from New York to South Carolina after he graduated from college puts transplanted Northerners into their own category. They are not Southerners, he says. They are Northerners who now live in the South.

     In other words, these transplants -- many of them retirees -- do not adapt to the customs and attitudes of the South. They bring their northern sensibilities with them, and often segregate themselves into gated communities or golf course developments -- or go to a university town like Athens or Austin.

     When he took a job on Hilton Head Island, SC, my nephew lived off island where he could afford a place, with locals who were for the most part true Southerners. He commuted to Hilton Head where almost everyone came from the Northeast or upper Midwest.

     Let's face it, there is a certain amount of snobbery among Northerners who retire to the South. Presumably the same could be said for Californians who retire to Arizona or Oregon. I don't think the Southerners or Westerners mind the snobbery so much. But many of them fear that the Northerners, or Californians, will bring their liberal values with them, which involve high taxes and big, intrusive government.

    So why do northern, or bi-coastal, retirees migrate to Red states? Some go to be with family . . . their kids have moved for a job in Dallas or Denver, or Raleigh or Atlanta. But most retirees from the North move because they want warmer weather. And now that they don't have to live near their high-paying jobs in Boston or New York, or Chicago or Cleveland, they can move to a less stressful, more laid-back area of the country.

     No doubt they also move for a lower cost of living. They may be tired of paying high state income taxes as well as $10,000 or $15,000 a year in real-estate taxes -- or maybe, now without a job, they simply can't afford the high cost of living. Maybe they say they want to support education, but since their kids are no longer in the school system, they don't have a personal stake in education and so they really don't want to pay for it.

     Is this liberal hypocrisy? Well, maybe that's one way to look at it. But you really can't blame these people, can you?

     So do Southerners really have to worry that northern liberals are going to bring their big city problems with them, or that they're going to "gentrify" the South, and the interior West as well, and run the locals out?

     A recent poll found that 44% of people in New Jersey, and 50% in Connecticut, express an interest in leaving their state. The Berkeley Institute of Governmental Studies found that 52% of Californians are considering migrating to another state. According to the New York Times, more than 7.3 million Californians have actually left the state since 2007. That's as many people as the entire state of Arizona!

     Is it possible that the Blue staters are bringing their politics with them? The people from California -- many but not all of whom are retirees -- are now fleeing to Nevada, Colorado and Arizona. The people from New Jersey and Connecticut are going to Florida and North Carolina. And these are exactly the Red states that are trending toward purple, if not blue, as their populations increase with out-of-staters.

     But not so fast. The Berkeley poll also found a sharp difference between the people who want to leave their Blue states and those who want to stay. It's the conservatives and the moderates who are most unhappy and most anxious to leave. The liberals for the most part think their Blue state is just fine, and they are happy to stay where they are. So, for example, the breakdown for California is: 38% of Democrats are considering leaving, compared to 55% of independents and 71% of Republicans.

     If this poll reflects reality, then maybe the question is wrong. Blue state liberals are not, by and large, retiring to Red states. Blue state conservatives are retiring to Red states. If that's the case, then instead of making Red states more liberal, the migrants may actually widen the Red and Blue divide -- bolstering the conservative-to-moderate populations of the Red states while leaving the liberals behind to make the Blue states even more liberal.

     Perhaps we all have some personal experience with this phenomenon. Certainly, several of my old New York friends are liberal elites who wouldn't dream of moving to states that they consider backward (cue Deliverance.) I also know a few who have moved to Red states who complain vociferously about the "right wing" government and their "right wing" policies.

     I also know people who have retired to Georgia and Florida and Texas who are perfectly happy with their new adopted states, and now wouldn't consider living anywhere else. But when I think about it . . . I believe they all live in a gated community, a golf course development, or a university town like Athens or Austin.

29 comments:

DJan said...

I live in Washington state and love just about everything here. I moved from Colorado (a university town) and find the politics here more to my liking. Good post! :-)

Sheila said...

My red state keeps getting all the conservatives from CA, OR and WA. In fact, parts of OR want to secede and be included in my state. Stay out, I say!! I'd love to see my state reflect more of the WA, OR and CA values, but it ain't gonna happen. So I spend most of the winter standing on the statehouse steps protesting the hate legislation.

Jennifer (UnfoldAndBegin) said...

I moved from Connecticut to Florida in 2019 and not because of high taxes. I moved because of the warm weather. And while I may be in Red Florida, I ended up in Blue Orlando, which is as liberal as you can get in Florida. The mayoral race last November had three Democrats facing off and no Republican.

To anyone who says that Liberals are running from their states to Red states, I say, show me the hoards that are running to Montana or South Dakota.

Kay said...

This is a very interesting post and gives me a lot of food for thought. It’s true that I wouldn’t dream of moving to a red state. Hawaii is a democratic, but a third of the population is conservative. I can imagine how uncomfortable it would be for me to be in a society that supports Trump.

Arkansas Patti said...

Well Florida use to be blue but too many red retirees changed it. I moved here thinking, Clinton home state with a democratic governor and now it is red. I'm beginning to think it is me:))

Carol Cassara said...

We have really struggled with this. Arizona is an attractive retirement state BUT it's so red we can't do it. Other reasons for other states, too. The fact is I am a Californian. It is deeply embedded in who I am. My identity as a human. I want to leave for all the reasons everyone in retirement has, traffic, congestion, $$. But I can'd do it. Not yet.

Anonymous said...

Sometimes the dynamic gets a little crazy when you talk about Florida. As a fourth generation Floridian, I have seen a lot of changes in my state, but having lived all over including Africa and Europe we knew when it was time to come home. It is hard to understand when people do move down and then complain when the retention pond in their gated community has alligators or a bear is lumbering around their neighborhood. Wildlife has just been part of our Florida life forever. One of the dust-ups that occurred in our former rather affluent neighborhood revolved around hunting dogs. A number of New Yorkers had moved in following relocation by Northrop-Grummn and were complaining about my next door neighbor's hunting dogs ensconced in their white brick kennel baying at night. It made it all the way to the county commission where with an overflow crowd the dogs won out. Our rural way of life is vanishing and we know it, but in pockets we hold out. Usually good people are good people, red or blue. Sadly there seems so much hatred and intolerance are both sides of the fence when it seems as if kindness and good manners are lacking.








Janis @ RetirementallyChallenged said...

I have always lived in California and will probably do so until I die. Although we've talked about moving to a less crowded area/state, it's hard to beat our wonderful year-round weather. As much as I'd love to help a red state turn purple, we'll stay here and enjoy hanging out with our true-blue friends.

Tom said...

I have to laugh at the Anon comment because I'd probably be on the side of the New Yorkers on the issue of the dogs baying at night. And yet I agree with his comment that, sadly, there seems to be too much hatred and intolerance on both sides of the fence and kindness and good manners are lacking ... and usually good people are good people, red or blue.

JudyC said...

Interesting post. It is always amusing to hear non-southerners discuss the South. Don't know about Florida but in Georgia, Reds and Blues get along pretty well, and transplants are most often shown true Southern hospitality. I believe they feel at home here with no need to hide behind gates. So to your readers, if you are looking to escape a blue state come on down and enjoy good weather, low taxes, low cost of living and friendly people. Just mind your manners and make sure you are comfortable with a MAGA decal and a Donkey decal in the same neighborhood. And please don't try to change the things that brought you here. By the way, if you are plain old liberal, that's OK, a lot of us are too. But I am happy to hear that the "liberal elites" won't be coming down. We would be polite to them, but we would not welcome them to the neighborhood with brownies, and we would discuss their ignorance behind their backs.

Janette said...

I thought about this all day. Even took a walk on a beach.
People used to pretty well get along in Phoenix (R) and Tucson(D)- with Flagstaff being the swing. Remember they had Udall and Goldwater at the same time. 90% of my friends and family members are Libertarians in Arizona and Idaho. They are third to fifth generation (unless Native- maybe 40 generations?). They worked together on issues- disagreeing on approach at times, but moved forward. WE, in general, voted for the person, not the party.

To move to make a place a "differ color" is pretty disrespectful in our, general, opinion. I don't care WHAT color your party is. Please don't.

Like Judy said...Come, but respect that those who grew up there probably have a pretty good idea, if they are politically involved, on water, gun, migration, poverty, work, education, & power issues . Ask why they do what they do. Western hospitality is as real as Southern hospitality. Some people assume that means that they are uneducated.
Generally they dislike any federal interference. Washington is far away from reality to most people. DC has no idea how to keep people safe in our states. That is, generally, why Trump is successful. It isn't about his words, it is his libertarian way of work. (I know people don't agree- I am just writing what I hear.)

They don't, really, want to hear that "your" way is better because" you" made high wages, bought low and sold high. If you live in a gated golf community, you have even less credibility. Put in the time and effort on the street, and then take a seat. It is a table not a podium.

Seems to them that it is the states that are left struggle with taxes/ racial issues/crime & terrible school issues. Maybe fix it before you move? Why try to make another state as dysfunctional as the one you left?

BTW- Carol- you are doing the right thing, Stay happy in CA. AZ/ID/NV will continue to drive over for the summer and enjoy the water and spend our money. WE go home :)
Jennifer,. Montana is having issues with corporate ranches. They also have foreign billionaires who come in and plow under Silicon Valley millionaire houses. That is a problem for the nation.

Anonymous said...

What you failed to mention is the influx of Puerto Rican’s infiltration into the Floridian lifestyle. These people always vote Democratic and are the real reason why Florida is turning from a Red state to a Blue state. Has nothing to do with Northerners moving in. Ditto for illegals setting up homesteads. They also vote Democratic. Have you done any research on this phenomenon?

Olga said...

My first husband moved to Virginia from Vermont and loves it. I am sure he continues to be involved in politics. VT is a blue state but it was definitely a Republican state when my family moved there in the late 50's. Things are always shifting. My sone tells me his dad is even getting a bit of southern drawl.

I have traveled to many states and find that there are mostly nice people everywhere, even in the northeast. There are a few rude people to be found everywhere as well and that "bless your heart" thing doesn't fool anyone. Just be kind. And listen with an open heart. It matters.

gigi-hawaii said...

Well, I have lived in California, Thailand, Europe and New York. Liked them all. Now, I am retired with my husband and live in Hawaii, my birth state. Hawaii tends to be Democratic, but has been known to swing towards Republicans, for example Nixon and Reagan.

Laurie Stone said...

Funny, I never thought of that till you mentioned it. I find a lot of conservative friends go down there and fit right in with the politics. Then there are some liberals who move there and have to keep mum a lot of the time. I'd find that hard. I guess its all about the warmer weather and easier cost of living. Can't beat that, although I'd miss Connecticut terribly (at least most of the year).

Laura Benjamin said...

I've moved from blue to red, urban to rural in my life and the main thing is to take people and places as they come. When we moved from SC to VT, we ran into towns where people didn't want us to shop in their stores because we were from away. So we found other shops or just persevered till they got used to us. They found out we didn't want to put streetlights in our country spot on the town's nickel. We didn't care if there wasn't a movie theater multiplex or a WalMart nearby. And we learned country ways and tweaked some of our behaviors and expectations. Thirty years later. we can say we've done well here in our red county, even being liberal.
Sadly, we're thinking of moving because of the urban/rural divide in our state. As in Virginia, Vermont has a lot of liberals in the urban side who detest hunting and are in terror of guns, so they're trying to impose their values on rural parts of the state. So although we are social liberals in a red area, we do not want to have our rights abrogated by people who live in very different circumstances. Actually the dealbreaker is mandatory composting of our minimal eligible garbage! We don't compost. It draws animals.
When we do go, it will be to another rural place since I'm done with cities, and to a very red place although I am still progressive at heart. And we'll get along fine living not too close to anyone.

Nancy the Reader said...

Brave post, Tom! It's so hard to understand (emotionally, though sometimes intellectually, too) other people's preferences and choices. I imagine my husband and I will stay here in Massachusetts for most of the year and go south in the winter. If we winter in a red state, it's a red state -- I grew up in a red state, and most of my family is red-state. I believe there are important things that only government can do (big things, like climate change, diplomacy), so I myself am blue, but I love plenty of red-state people (who like to restrain the government).

But WINTER. Now that I'm retired, I look around at the snow on the ground and ask, why, oh why, would I stay here in January????

Madeline Kasian said...

Been in Arizona since 1982, and we are liberal democrats. the early days were harder, but we were young and had work to do.. came for the job opportunities and the very low cost of living. We’ve been happy here.the good thing is, with the influx of people from other states moving in, our politics are changing..Arizona is on brink of turning blue.. and I believe it will happen,just takes some time.. but we may be close!! I have always been uncomfortable with our gun laws here, a lot of women I know carry pistols in their pocketbooks and that is disconcerting.. a grocery store full of guns,yes,really But I have had to learn to live with it for now..and I VOTE. We have very low property tax,proximity to mountains, beaches are 4-5 hours away, small mining towns and hiking trails..and lots and lots of sky. I could never live Back East again.. and I pray that more Democrats keep moving into Arizona.

Madeline Kasian said...

P.S. My three best friends have lived here a long time, they are 2 retired teachers,from Missouri, and one is a retired realtor from Idaho. ALL Democrats— we have lively convos while playing cards every other week! A few of my friends in my group are very conservative Republicans, originally from Iowa and New Mexico.We do not discuss politics..we share art and lunch. I find most of the teachers I know,working and retired, are Democrat, and many of my Nursing friends (we see the results of a lack of Universal health Care on a daily basis!!)—so,Arizona does have some potential......

jono said...

I have it on good authority (but not documented) that working Californians are moving to Arizona, Nevada,and Utah to escape the high cost of living. They are bringing their ideals with them and it is slowly turning those states toward blueness. Time will tell, but we may notice the changes in the coming election.

Anonymous said...

I have no clue why there is so much hate spewing between the Rs and the Ds. Back in the 1950s, as I recall, my great-grandparents regularly neutralized one another's votes. My husband (since 1957) and I regularly do the same. In neither case was there an uproar within the family over differences of party. In fact, I could not tell you which of my great-grandparents was followed which party.

Linda Myers said...

We spend most of the year in Tucson (red state, blue city) and the summer in Seattle (blue, blue!). I like the Tucson mix because I can have friends with different perspectives and listen to them all. We're in Tucson for the weather (except summer) and the lower cost of living. I'd love to change my residency so I could vote blue in Arizona, but I still consider myself a Washingtonian.

Anonymous said...

Living in Arizona for 25 years now I understand the influx of people from other areas to escape the high cost of living and taxes especially from California (you see cars with California license plates everywhere). And if they want to vote Blue that is their choice and I live with that. What I don’t understand is the mentality to change the state like the one they came from. Over time the high cost of living and taxes will be similar to what they left. So what is gained? The housing prices in AZ are becoming out of sight for my children and grandchildren already.

Snickelfritz said...

I live in a red state, the state of our vice president and I love it. Our people are friendly. Our taxes are low. We have very few homeless and if we do, we take care of them. I really do not want liberals to leave their highly taxed blue states and come here and vote like they did before because they would ruin it all. I don't want to be a blue state. EVER.

Anonymous said...

I am a lifelong Pennsylvanian. Thankfully, I live in a blue area. I would love to spend some of my retirement years in sunny Florida but will never do it because it is such a red state. Lots of young people are moving to my town from Portland, Austin, etc., because they've heard of our low(er) cost of living. Like others have stated, though, they bring the mentality from the town they left, which brings change to the new area and we end up having a higher cost of living because of it.

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Chris Kaim Levine said...

It disheartens me to hear people wishing that they could help turn a red state blue. Why do you think your way of thinking and doing things is superior to the people in those states? Why not just stay where you are then? We left Chicago over 17 years ago and moved to the most conservative county in the Florida panhandle because we didn't like the high taxes, high crime or the politics. We love the low taxes and low crime where we live and the more libertarian local governments that keep government to a minimum. Although we miss some good pizza and Italian beefs we have learned to love chicken and waffles, fried catfish and shrimp and grits. Instead of leaving your blue state because of high taxes and crime, stay there and work on changing it, if the weather is your issue go to California.

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Sue said...

Dear Tom and Friends, lived in Pennsylvania all my life, and intend to continue. Am sure the sunny South is nice, but plan to stay here in Pennsylvania, and be buried 6-feet under Pennsylvania soil.